INTERVIEW
ingredients in their products? TOL: I think if consumers are simply given a preference they will say “I don’t want silicones”. But if you give them a product that doesn’t have the right kind of polymer to deliver the proper aesthetics they will say “I don’t like that product” and sales will suffer. We can always go back in the lab and change the molecule to correct its problem. I don’t know of anybody that’s really doing that. It is different if a regulation makes a change in formulation necessary as regulations must be observed.
PC: Do you think that there’s a need for our industry to educate consumers a bit more about what these ingredients are, how they behave and what they’re there to do. TOL: Yes, and we need to educate ourselves and be more academically honest with ourselves as to what the things mean. You can create a lot of hype for things that really have no meaning and we can end up changing what the market will accept based on things that are not supported by data. There’s a lot of work being done on bio-degradation, but how many bio-degradation charts have you published for peer review? So you’ve got to say, “Hey this is bio- degradable”, but what does it mean if not supported by data?
PC: Are there no standardized measures or test methods for bio-degradation? TOL: There are test methods that are standardized, but people never really talk about them. I have a colleague who says his products are plant derived, they’re made in a chemical plant in New Jersey. They’re natural because they’re made from non-radioactive elements. This tweaking meanings explains how words can be manipulated. By definition he’s absolutely right. And it’s amazing how these things, once they get in, you know you can’t change them. Bob Lochhead has said there’s probably more known about mineral oil because of the national formulary work and all the things that have been done with it. Yet some reject it because it’s not natural. One of the areas that I’ve
become very interested in over time is what I call cosmetic ethics. The things we do that aren’t necessarily regulated but should be thought about. For example, if I’m going to make a product out of olive oil, olive oil is a wonderful material, but we can eat it. There are other oils that have carbon distributions that are
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17 PC: What goals have you got for
Nascent Technologies over the next few years? TOL: There are major opportunities in the field of skin care. Providing water resistant, biodegradable, aesthetically appealing products that give even distribution and protection of UV. Controlling the photochemistry is key. I think delivery systems for skin are going to be very important. How do we keep things on the skin that we want to keep on there and protect the skin from harmful exposure. I also think that there’s going
“Sun care is a critical area, we’re going to see some developments associated with materials that are not active but really help the performance of the sunscreen.”
relatively similar that are not edible. The question is should we be using edible oils to make products that can be made with non-edible products and feed people? These questions are very complex and require a lot of thought to determine what is best.
PC: How do you think the role of silicones will evolve over the next say 5 years or so? TOL: Silicones have changed tremendously in the last 5 years. I like to call silicone chemistry “chameleon chemistry” because it is available in so many different colours and shades. The materials that we accepted 5 years ago (like use of cyclics and low molecular weight fluids) have some problems and are not well regarded today. Some of them will disappear, as well they should. The next question is what can
we replace these raw materials with? There are many approaches that require understanding why these materials are in formulation. If we are worried about cyclics, we can go back and put products together that don’t generate cyclics. It can be as simple as using products that are not made from D4. I don’t think silicone is ever really going to go away, it’s too important of a material. Silicones are going to be used at lower and lower concentrations, to satisfy both
consumer wants and what government mandates. We have already worked on some of those materials.
PC: I think you said in one of your articles that they should be the spice rather than the meat and the potatoes. TOL: Absolutely, any polymer that you can get to go to the surface that changes the surface will have an effect. So, they’re also useful at less than 5%, sometimes less than 1%. I can take something that has 30% polymer today and get it down to 1% so the strain on the environment is much less, simply because you use so much less. The trick here is to replace the old polymer with new materials that offer performance and a suitable environmental profile. Proper polymer selection is the key.
PC: Have you been particularly impressed with any of the natural replacements? Have any surprised you that you’ve come into contact with? TOL: There are a collection of film formers that are based on polyester technology, that have been well accepted. They come from careful consideration of the structure and function in the formulation. We delve more deeply in the structure/ function to become more efficient at formulation. Nascent is working with customers who will get into that degree of detail.
to be some big changes associated with what’s going on with China’s regulatory systems. And their naming systems. The thing that absolutely astounds me is that I did a lot of travel in 2019 and found that the same problems exist everywhere. Any place in the world and we’re looking at the same things. The other thing I think is
probably going to be a problem is trying to have global formulas. Global formulas are great for supply chain. But the reality is that beauty is not a one size fits all kind of thing.
PC: Is that one of the big challenges that you see for the industry, making cost-effective localised products? TOL: Yes, instead of shipping fully formulated products, one can develop platforms. These platforms will be almost complete formulations to which the “local spice for the formulation” is added. In essence, you put the formula together that has all the meat and potatoes and everything else you need. Then you come back locally with the spice that is appropriate for their market. So, 90% or 95% of the formula’s already done, then you localise it with a unique property.
PC: You received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the SCC a couple of years ago. How important that organisation has been throughout your career? TOL: I’ve been a member of the Society of Cosmetic Chemists for 40 years now. When I came into the industry, I really knew very little about any of it, because I’m an organic chemist. So, learning what goes on, all the education that’s provided, the mentors, the friendships, have been incredible. And I think they’ll become more important as you go along. Now, I get the opportunity to go back and teach or be on the Education Committee which is really great fun. The other thing I’m doing as
April 2021 PERSONAL CARE
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