CONSTRUCTION
“Many NHS Trusts don’t really know
what their estate’s like, and the condition of their buildings,” said
Steris’s Andrew Varley. “They haven’t even
got evidence that it’s compartmentalised correctly.”
condition it might be in, almost instantly. That’s the way things are going, but it’s early days.” Jonathan Baillie asked: “Phil, as a lawyer, this is presumably a pretty complex piece of legislation to deal with, but I guess you can see the rationale behind it?” Phil Morrison responded: “Yes, absolutely; you can
trace the DNA right through to the Grenfell enquiry and everything that went wrong there – from an architect not having the experience of dealing with high-rise buildings, all the way to the design still being done by the design and build sub-contractor right up until the minute before things were being put into the building. And also there not being enough accountability, or sufficient evidence of basic things like fire test certificates for actual panels – which we now know they didn’t have, and the various associated tests. So, as regards the complete change we are seeing in the legislation that’s coming through – and we will see masses more – you can see the rationale behind it. It goes back to us talking about this compliance being difficult, or expensive, but then how much is a life worth? It’s a very difficult argument to have if you’re going to say: ‘Well, we could have done it, but we didn’t.’” Jonathan Baillie said: “Has anybody got a view on
how much of an extra burden the obligations under the Act will be for, say, NHS Estates departments and Estates managers with a varied and sizeable estate incorporating some liable buildings?”
Timescales key Stuart Dalton said: “I think the timescales are the big thing here. There’s appetite to do the right thing, as always, but being able to do enough of it soon enough, and stick with your timescales and budgets, will be a challenge. Dean mentioned work banks getting projects ready so you’ve done that homework early on, which we recommend a lot, but it’s not always practical with the investment a Trust must make for capitalising work that may not proceed for several years. Things change and move on.” Steve Batson said: “I think from an awareness and training standpoint within the NHS estate – from Project
managers through to Board-level personnel, I’m hoping this will help them on their journey. However, in terms of their competencies, their charge of the projects, and understanding that they are responsible, I think there is a large lack of awareness of their legal duty.” Connie Campbell said: “I think it’s interesting that this is now all coming into force via the Building Safety Act, because we’ve also had significant legislation change in other building regulations – so it’s all happening now. I think there’s a degree of information overload, and people are learning, trying both to understand their responsibilities, and the impact. It’s perhaps a good thing that it’s all happening now; you could say this is a step change for the industry. We have to do this, and perhaps it’s an opportunity to ensure we emphasise that the Act is actually the one we really need to be focusing on?” Steve Batson said: “I think there is also an interesting dynamic about responsibility for our estate for life in terms of sustainability.”
Impact right up the chain Jonathan Baillie asked: “Presumably this is going to go right up in terms of responsibility to somebody like a Trust CEO if there is an issue? Trust Boards will thus need to be aware of the ramifications as well, Phil?” Phil Morrison replied: “Yes, absolutely. We’ve seen, if you look at any enquiry – the Post Office one being the most recent – that the powers-that-be look at the top person to see what practices were in place, and ascertain what they knew about it. So, as a Trust CEO, you need to be sure you have the right people in place, with the right competencies, and procedures. Taking the point made about potentially needing a Building Safety Act Officer in the same way you have Authorising Engineers and fire safety etc, as a CEO you would want to know your fire strategy is getting updated, and that your plans for dealing with RAAC or the Building Safety Act can all be dealt with – and that you have the right people in place. “The last thing you want to be doing, at an Inquiry, is saying: ‘I would have loved to have done all this, but there was just not enough money.’ You need to be doing something, because the downside is: it’s your picture on a headline. So I suppose the only thing to say really is that it’s never too early to call your solicitor.” Dean Payton said: “Just to say that while we are
talking about the Building Safety Act, and the Building Regulations, we’re not talking about the Approved Documents, which are often used interchangeably. The Approved Documents, of course, aren’t the Building Regulations, but rather a way of complying with them. I think there is a danger that Trusts reading this might think: ‘What does this all mean to us? We use the Building Regulations, and we comply with the HBNs and HTMs.’” Andy Buckley of Curtins said: “My understanding is that
the HTMs and HBNs are not necessarily mandatory, but guidelines?” Dean Payton responded: “They set out best practice, but they are a way of achieving compliance with the Building Regulations, although it is not uncommon for us to derogate away from them in certain circumstances with approval from the Trust concerned.” Trevor Rogers said: “The HTMs are identified in the
“We’re finding that with products we’ve previously used, the
manufacturers perhaps haven’t completed their updated tests, and are still waiting to get their
certificates,” said Connie Campbell of Hoare Lea.
30 Health Estate Journal October 2024
Approved Documents, so have the same status in an Approved Document, so it is one way of achieving Building Regulations compliance, and then there is a section in the Building Safety Act which indicates a tendency towards negative liability if you follow it, and towards liability if you don’t. So that’s where it comes in.” With this, the discussions concluded, and the day’s
Chair, Steve Batson, thanked the attendees for their contributions, and Clarion for hosting the event.
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