choice proposal — but a question about pri- vatizing passenger trains. There was an interesting dynamic in the
room when Wilner spoke. A few years ago, be- fore the same conference, he brought up the identical issue — i.e. turning the passenger trains back to the privately-owned and oper- ated freight railroads. At that time, AAR’s lawsuit against the FRA over passenger on- time performance on freight tracks was in the future. He was greeted with skepticism. In 2011, Wilner made his return with es- sentially the same message This time, with all kinds of political setbacks and threats to passenger train advancements — not just HSR, but also conventional service (Amtrak and/or other) — the reaction was more re- ceptive. The author quoted former Norfolk Southern CEO David Goode as at one time expressing some preference for running the passenger trains on its railroad, as opposed to some of the red tape and harassment (my words, not his) that goes with having to accom- modate federal mandates to accommodate. Wilner envisions a scenario where the railroads, paid at market rates for operating passenger trains, would assume full respon- sibility for operating the trains under their aegis and name. How would it work? In an e- mail interview with this column following his talk, Wilner got down to specifics: His preferred outcome is for consistent
and reliable funding for Amtrak. Returning the passenger trains to the freight railroads is his “second option” only if “we cannot achieve for Amtrak consistent and reliable funding and find a solution to the freight railroads’ opposition to allowing other (non- Amtrak) operators on their tracks [a posi- tion reiterated earlier at the conference by AAR President Ed Hamberger — W.V.].” Nonetheless, Wilner believes that “for
sure, the four decades status quo is just not sustainable” given the nation’s increased de- mand for rail passenger service (convention- al, higher-speed, and high speed). That point having been clarified, here is the rest of our interview: Q: What is the incentive for the freight railroads to engage in a non-profit pursuit (i.e. running passenger trains)? A: The incentive is to avoid having other operators operating on their track [a long- time AAR position — W.V.]. Also, with subsi- dies flowing to the freights rather than Am- trak, conservatives would not be so hostile to providing subsidies, as the government- owned Amtrak would then be privatized. Certainly the level of subsidies would have to be sufficient to ensure the freights realized a return on their investment (profit). Q: Also, would there not be a transfer of
the subsidy battle from supporting Amtrak to the issue of subsidizing private for profit corporations? A: Yes, but conservatives likely would
better cotton (a Stan Crane term) to provid- ing those subsidies to privately-owned freights than to government-owned Amtrak. Also, by combining the lobbying strength of freight railroads (which have more Republi- can friends in Congress) with the lobbying strength of [rail] unions (which have more Democratic Party friends in Congress), there would be a greater likelihood of achieving consistent and reliable funding for passenger service. Q: Would there not be plenty of nitpicking regardless of whether it’s Amtrak or the pri- vately-operated freight railroads?
A: Politics cannot be divorced from the
subsidy issue any more than politics can be removed from the battle of free-market rate making and service levels versus the rereg- ulation sought by shippers. The preferred outcome would be less political interference and greater reliance on market forces. Q: The freight railroads currently com-
plain they are not remunerated by Amtrak at “market rates” for hosting passenger trains. Does that not signal that if they ac- tually operated the trains for no profit, they will be asking for subsidies that exceed (per- haps significantly) what Congress is accus- tomed to providing for passenger rail? A: The level of subsidies would have to
satisfy the freight railroads’ legitimate de- mand for full cost-recovery. Again, this is not the preferred solution, but freight rail- roads might well prefer to take back passen- ger operations if the alternative is less de- sirable “multiple” operators bidding (through government) for a right to operate on freight railroad track. Q: And would there not be some dispute
or debate on this within the industry itself — possibly for years — before a final rate and overall structure is agreed upon? A: Yes, recall the lengthy debate leading
up to passage of the Staggers [de-regulation] Act [of 1980] — the steadfast opposition to de-regulation by BN’s Norman Lorentzen and N&W’s Jack Fishwick. In the end, the indus- try was unanimous in its support of Staggers. Mr. Wilner leaves open the question of just
what role, if any, Amtrak will play in a freight railroad-operated passenger train network. He will discuss the issue further in the forthcoming updated version of his book The Amtrak Story. The overriding question is: In our mixed public/private economy, can a public/private coalition be harnessed to save America’s inter-city passenger train sys- tem? By the way, it is worth noting that charter schools receive subsidies (via vouch- ers) as do nursing homes (via Medicare). Wilner’s ideas could provide a lively warm-up to a debate that — as indicated above — would last for years. (Note: AAR’s Ed Hamberger reminded the group that AAR’s suit against FRA argues that — con- stitutionally — neither the feds nor Amtrak itself can promulgate metrics and timing as an issue between two private companies. The point: On paper at least, Amtrak — notwithstanding its subsidies — is legally a private firm.)
Two Trains to Vegas? It has been some time since we have brought you up to date on our never-ending soap opera that posits the question: Will Ameri- ca’s largest un-served passenger rail corri- dor find its train? This political drama of the Great Southwest has been offered to you in several installments. Recall that Harry Reid had forsaken the
300 m.p.h. Maglev super-speed proposal. The Senate Majority Leader then shifted his political weight behind the rival DesertX- press. On October 25, the federal Surface Transportation Board (STB) approved con- struction of the DX 190-mile high-speed line (up to 150 m.p.h.) between Las Vegas and Victorville, Calif. But wait, hold the phone! Almost at the very same moment, the
STB was taking its action in Washington, D.C., across town Passenger Trains on Freight Railroads was winding up its two- day session with another suitor for the po-
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