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Roundtable Sustainable energy
safely make those shifts. The issue here is trying to use goods to have dynamic demand built into them, by law
what energy we have most effectively. from 2011, and try to make that EU-wide. I would also
SB: If somebody knows what their demand profile try to force everyone to agree on one of two protocols,
We are not
will be on the day, and they know that between certain so you could then start to have a family of consumer
putting systems
hours of the day they are willing to interrupt that retail end-products around it.
in buildings that
demand or to reduce it by a certain amount, there is Then, on the commercial side, you could have
already a route to market to provide that service. interfaces to things like your air-con system so that it
are capable of
BC: Should we not be designing buildings now that would not be a special thing to put DDR in. If you made
being sensibly
are DDM-ready for the future? those things happen and said you have to provide that
dynamically
David Frise, formerly head of energy services at technology, then small players can come in and start
NG Bailey: It wouldn’t be hard but you cannot sell it to making innovative solutions around the technology.
managed –
a client at the moment. It is very difficult to get them However, at the moment, it is easy for everyone to
Terry Wyatt
to put in anything but the absolute bare minimum, say it is hard, we’ll have another consultation, we’ll
because you won’t win the job. Quite often the tenant blame it on the grid, or we’ll blame it on E.ON or on
does not pay the bill, or does not have an interest in someone else – and the infrastructure is not there to
how much energy is used because it is a flat rate. start hanging the bits off.
Therefore the whole thing needs to be joined up. I RS: E.ON very much wants to change energy to
believe we as building services engineers hold the key, deliver a low-carbon UK, and is interested in demand
certainly in commercial buildings, and we will hold management. Flexible demand is an area that E.ON
the key in the domestic environment when you start is currently looking into – it is about shifting the
to get home area networks. It is a huge opportunity for time of use of power, rather than reducing the overall
us without a doubt, otherwise companies like Cisco, consumption. The shift in demand will lead to a
Microsoft and Google would not be bothering with it potentially lower carbon generation mix and more
– they are investing in smart grids and they see that efficient electricity supply industry, which has to be
Terry Wyatt argues for DDM,
the technology around that is key to it. good for everyone. alongside Paul Lazarevic, left,
BC: How are building services engineers the key if TW: That is what we want, that is what DDM is about, >
and Stuart Bailey.
they will be entirely at the behest of the client?
D H-D: Have your air-con driven by DDM.
DF: Exactly that. What we have to do is talk to clients
strategically about why they need to do this. We can
have all the technology in place to make it work but,
if we don’t win the hearts and minds, we aren’t going
to do it.
BC: What sort of power infrastructure tariff system
would work best to promote DDM, even if it means
completely changing the way things operate at the
moment?
RS: From a technical point of view – I cannot
comment on pricing structures and so on – if there
were a single framework in which every level of that
market could contribute, the headache so far as the
building services issues are concerned – around how
to enable buildings and clients to play into that market
– could be overcome much more smoothly. Such a
framework would be some kind of system in which
energy users could make available that opportunity to
alter the time of demand.
We have talked about systems where the end-user,
for instance the person buying the fridge, does not even
know or care whether there is a demand management
device in their appliance, and we have talked about
buildings where the profile is known and where energy
savings can be achieved in a transparent manner. I
would welcome a framework that would marry these
opportunities together into a system that can be offered
to the grid.
BC: What policy changes do we need to make this
happen?
D H-D: You need to force the players to talk to one
another. Where possible, I would want all the domestic
www.cibsejournal.com December 2009 CIBSE Journal 23
CIBSEdec09_pp20-24_roundtable.indd 23 19/11/09 17:01:24
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