WHAT NEXT FOR DE&I? THE PANEL DISCUSSION
With the pushback from the government in the United States and elsewhere, Diversity, Equity and Inclusion legislation has become controversial in some circles recently. Marianne Curphey reports on findings at the CIPD National Conference.
A panel discussion with Cheryl Samuels, People & Culture Director at Evelina London (part of Guy’s and St Thomas’ NHS Foundation Trust); Jo Carlin, Chief People Officer at Effective Energy Group; Matt Davies, CEO at Hapus People and Katie Jacobs, journalist, author of the recent CIPD report on the future of EDI, looked at how this was impacting HR professionals in their roles in organisations. Describing DE&I as “a
particularly hot topic”, Jacobs noted how “there will be organisations here dealing with the fallout of leaders retreating from DE&I”. “It is something that can be hard
to keep on the agenda in financially challenging times when you’ve got lots of other priorities looking for space or dealing with employee concerns, however misplaced, about EDI efforts undermining the concept of meritocracy,” she said. “Questions over business value, outcomes, complexity, politicisation, changing language and confusion
over legalities have all been making this space an increasingly challenging one for those that work within the profession.” However, on a more positive
note, she pointed out that in the UK the majority of the British public does remain in favour of DE&I, with 48 per cent of the British public saying they believe that ED&I is a very good use of money and leads to fairer outcomes. Carlin said that one of the issues
was that in order for DE&I to work, other people had to “give up seats”, something they were often reluctant to do, and that recently some had been more vocal about their opposition. “We can’t have a diverse board
if the board is still in place for 10 or 20, years, and yet the backlash has never really gone away,” she said. Davies pointed out that DE&I
was not just “nice to have”, it was essential to business performance, although currently, there was an unfortunate
“polarisation and
dehumanisation of people who are different to us.” Samuels explained that the NHS
was underpinned by its Constitution and the importance of healthcare being free at the point of need. “I feel strongly around it being
free for all,” she said. That means being free to everyone, regardless of their background, creed or religious persuasions or sexual orientation. “That guiding principle grounds
us as healthcare professionals, or professionals that sit within the NHS, around thinking about how we deliver healthcare equitably to everybody that needs it.” For example, she cited how
black women were four times more likely to
die in childbirth than
white women, and that since breast cancer presents at a younger age in black women, it was often missed.
Below: Panel at the 2025 CIPD Annual Conference – (left to right) Jo Carlin, Matt Davies, Cheryl Samuels & Katie Jacobs.
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