years, which, if current trends hold, is likely to be ever more specialized. Being a gen- eralist is becoming more and more com- plicated and difficult to do, so being able to focus and pick up specialties in terms of substantive areas will be important. The as- sociation needs to be prepared to deliver the information that will be needed to the lawyers practicing in unique areas of the law. There is also a risk that our technol- ogy and specialization will lead to greater isolation among the members of the bar as people ply their trade with keystrokes. The association has a role in providing an interactive component for lawyers who are now practicing out of their homes, some of which may be actually located in oth- er jurisdictions. Also, the burden of young lawyers entering Vermont practice at low wages with overwhelming debt is an enor- mously complicated issue that warrants at- tention. These are areas that I think we can, perhaps over the course of this year, begin to really identify and bring into focus. If cir- cumstances allow, we will be looking for- ward to really identifying our future needs and then figuring out what new services we can economically provide for our members.
BP: Sounds like a pretty tall order. JC: Yes, it’s a much taller order than we
are going to accomplish in this year, but the process is really ongoing. We are not truly initiating anything because our Board has always been focused on trends. Perhaps we will try to accelerate it, really move it along, and be on the forward edge of what’s happening.
BP: The Board spent a lot of time in the last year or two talking about the ag- ing demographic of the Vermont lawyer— not necessarily just the association but the Vermont bar globally—the smaller num- ber of people sitting to take the exam in this state, and especially the fewer num- ber of VLS graduates that choose to stay in Vermont. That may be because of the debt law students are graduating with to- day and opportunities in Vermont. How does all of that stuff factor into what the VBA can do, should be thinking about do- ing, and should be going out on the limb to try to do? JC: Boy, as I sit here today, I don’t know that there is a ready answer to the demo- graphic question. I am not even sure that there is clarity about what the demograph- ics will look like ten or twenty years from now. I say that because my understanding is that the pace of new admittees over the last twenty years has fallen off, but it seems also to have leveled somewhat and stabi- lized in recent years, although at smaller numbers. I think there is also, on the na- tional level, a sense that, if anything, there are too many people in the legal profession
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and a glut of law school graduates who are being turned out of law schools with large debts in a difficult job market. Vermont is a little different in a couple of respects. Ver- mont has never been a place where lawyers come to sustain a lucrative living. We are mostly here because of lifestyle, or because of other personal choices about where and how we choose to live. I do think there is a significant problem with people gradu- ating from law schools with overwhelming debts that cannot be realistically paid on a Vermont entry salary. That’s a problem, and that’s a Vermont problem in particular, because they graduate with the same debt but don’t have the same income, which ob- viously has an impact on whether they can afford to remain here. But, I can’t say that an overall reduction in lawyers in this state is per se a negative or that we can realisti- cally have any influence on these trends if it is. We will certainly have to look into it. The Association may have a problem go- ing forward in terms of membership be- cause of the potential for some decline in lawyer population, which we will have to deal with from a financial standpoint. I don’t know, however, that there are many who would argue that there are too few at- torneys practicing in the state of Vermont; at least I have not heard that comment. It seems to me that the issue you hear is that lawyers in Vermont cannot earn a sustain- able living. We will have to address and deal with sustaining membership because we are a voluntary association that relies on each one of our 2,100 plus members. One of the ways that issue may get addressed is through the creation of an associate non- voting membership that allows for people to become associated with the Vermont Bar Association who are non-lawyers, but who are intimately involved in the legal sys- tem through their own professions or vol- unteerism. I think that will be very helpful to the Association and our lawyer members for several reasons. One, it will provide a conduit to interact with other people who have non-legal skills and knowledge that is imperative to understand if we are to be skilled lawyers. Guardians ad litem, media- tors, expert witnesses, people who provide forensic services and testimony at trial, ac- countants, appraisers, site technicians, and all kinds of people who are involved in the legal profession can now be affiliated or associated with the Vermont Bar Associa- tion and find a location where they can be- come better trained while providing learn- ing opportunities to lawyers about the spe- cific information that they have, the more detailed technical information that lawyers are going to need to be skilled practitio- ners. It is my sense that lawyers are not only going to have to know the law in the particular area in which they practice, but they are going to need to know something
THE VERMONT BAR JOURNAL • FALL 2011 7
Interview with VBA President Jim Carroll
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