f ix > ADVERTISER AND TIMES, FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 20, 1935. ers ■■


nn< on them. on. 1 .'ballots which have in


to ill*' ground with tho


In and they mature later Triie


| i tlie bulbs. Scrape the order that- the* outer coat


|.\ing a yellowing tinge and plant's collapsing. Allow


lorim.T have bulbs tlio size of bulbs ripen-


will l)o needing


ll ljy Min and wind. Bend ]vo> in a northerly direc- -liilie i< not kept off tho bottoms of the bulbs on 1‘ulcii trays, which ought


|idnors bolero the evenings dew. These two crops


|:<>m bulb*, for the saho of noting, and a cluster of from every bulb plautcd.


Town Council Liveliness Continues.


Councillors Leith and Hallows as Critics of Committee Procedure.


“ PUBLIC ADVERTISING," SAYS COUNCILLOR PARKER. COUNCILLOR DEWHURST RESENTS


ceedings at the monthly meeting of Clithcroe Town Council on Tuesday evening, and the discussions were followed with "keen interest by a fairly large group


in the public gallery. Councillors Leith and Hallows were again associated in amendments to the


vpc of onion, which pro- :lh. and does not- produce •lu'ter- like tree onions, i -ballot*. The plants ' " -miniatured bulbs—are


minutes, one dealing with an increase in the Surveyor s salary and the other with housing. " Points of order *’ were frequently raised, as Councillor Leith sought on the second amendment to reply to criticisms raised on the first.


The salarv increases were approved, despite the plea that the times are


■ag .-owing. The last two |u :ntni-io*eping onions, but


m*\ ilit* outdoor autumn- on- nlong n«*\t. then comes ig ni tin* >owing started in warmth and lastly comes


mlb: otlierwi-e. iliey will in a >!iort time. Rainy


mg '»*:i'ou. Onions must im-li leaf grows from tho


-mall in the bulb because


| ; t ' t . hut ripening can bo g over their stems to


- •* .-ecnnd growth.” in a bed never are in a of ripene-M The strongest tin- higge-t bulbs unless u n»ik< hecau-e of over-


litem- of tin* bulbs must bo ev hour- of sun-hine. Tho e cut oil*. seeing that sap would no/.e through tho b.m- mu-t he allowed to


fid tin* Mm reaches them am! t!n*y can be drawn Tin* 'Uiining of the. bulbs |'7»ut of tin* ground. In


|t-.


llii had to sprouting. Rub |!<»m tii* y grow —before they to 'Oiien. An onion tin* end rtf a length of


|u to tin* mill of the cellar Warmth, moisture in


|i around the -tring. Each otlnr by it- weight.


| for the Winter.


ncan- that the beans in- ainl ihat the pods are


rh t I'unners are giving lor thought. The wot tin* plant- grow. Where pod' mining yellow and


-hurt-he* ping the surplus thinly lining the bottom a- a hmadpan, with salt,


In i i- mil* looks on other innut In* eaten as fast as v fur U'*. it i- a relief to r l"*an> rail be preserved mption. An inducement hie i- not alone the avoid- hijt the* plants eontinuo 'Inn tin* bean?, are picked mow in tb»*ir -hells.


a,'< r nj bean- in the pan, : oi ait; a thick layer of -alt; and so on. Make t. Ki*e|) it in the cool.


i: si> lie in order to stand Fill a jar to within an


ikick the pods into


am pi'kh'd. they can bo !oig.


tin ir hoiling in order to < f tin'm.


i; i.i\ an ounce of salt on -pound jar. ami stand tho


l l t th.* jars remain in the |th* liquid in the latter lias !<*w minutes. Take out '•"‘-I. "*ai tin*m with nir-


i o] water on tho fire, but it that tin* water bubbles


diai;.* tiii'in slowly up and • :<!•* to -ide in order to ■ mug liquid.


Lower garden.


| Winter Flowers. \* a d i- l ik e for the garden an and fin- spring, because > gardmi in winter means labour.


g and nothing pretty to i- dull. The conclusion ' .a tu iv should havo mado


*• All work and


* ■ a 't - iro n liaek with ft h;l<*. Blooms from bulbs v-i. an* 4-nsily possible


!y < alb d rlonmmt months, not


!m hellebores (Christmas ura nt winter heliotrope hi-), jm violas and tho


a- iris >ty)oMi and the iris •nnter aconites.*


grow ior winter flowering mud arc* eoleliicums,


tlio Plants


i'd show of 1,000 sheep tie, amJ 20 pigs on offer attendance of customers, lambs, to


dier heifers and ibullocks, si young cows, to 5Rl.» per lb.; pigs, over 200lb., ditto, under 1401b., 12s. or«*. A steady trade at


ulings, sd. to SRI; small r.-. -id. to ml.; best small


others,


led show of dairy cattle |ttendance.


It heifers to £30; others, I here were about 80 calves lvoal calves, COs. to 75s.; I*, to 39s.; young calves, Budges, Messrs. A. Hanson, land .T. Tlirchall. Burnley* Ig awards for dairv onttlo: Ihunsop Bridge; 2. B. nn<l figton.


U20 to £31; other useful ’>; plain and aged, cattle,


Quotations:


the di-advantage of tho cropping. The most


: k dormant as some Vi- of the other onions


alt- r ihe New Year ill he hc-t thing to do is i them on the roof of a


-tui'cd in a dry place,


inopportune. A happy feature of the discussion was the general agreement as to the efficiency and conscientiousness of the Surveyor.


Repeating a remark attributed by a disappointed applicant for a house


to the Chairman of the Housing Committee, Councillor Hallows drew an ex­ pression of resentment from Councillor Hcwhurst, wiio not only denied making the remark but protested against unfair tactics.


houses which are to be demolished should be given tenancies in new houses, and Councillor Dewhurst pointed out that while under no legal obligation to provide alternative accommodation, the Committee were doing their^ best to obtain powers to erect houses to enable them to deal with the whole situation.


References to committee meetings which “ were more like smoking


concerts," were made bv Councillor Leith, while Councillor Parker had,a tilt at an amendment lie described as “ nothing but public advertising " by members posing as “ the saints of the town.” Alderman Boothman announced a series of reductions in electricity charges, resulting from the policy of the committee of returning profits to the consumers.


thwaite) presided and every member of the Council was present, viz: Aldermen J. Booth- man, AW H. Seedall, AV. Standring and 3. Thornbcr; Councillors B. Manley, AW E. Hughes, F. Bentham, G. Dowliurst, J. AVilkinson, R. Parker, IL AYnddington, AW Leith, A. Hallows, M. French and G. Hargreaves.


The Mayor (Councillor J. H. Satter-


Standring congratulated the Mayor upon his birthday. He hoped the Mayor would live long and be happy.


At the outset of the meeting, Alderman


amidst laughter that if there happened to he a display of fireworks during the meet­ ing his birthday would perhaps provide the excuse for it.


Tho Mayor returning thanks, added SURVEYOR’S SALARY.


“ Time Not Opportune for Increase,” says Councillor Leith.


;ii' ought to he eaten this •ah*d bi-an- in water oil


mittee came forward for confirmation, Coun­ cillor Leith said that ho wished to make certain remarks regarding the following minute: “ f t was proposed bv Councillor Hughes, seconded by Councillor AYadding- ton, and unanimously resolved, to recom­ mend that the salary of the Borough Sur­ veyor be increased hv £25 from August 1st and by a further £25 from April 1st.” Councillor Leith asked if there had been any change in the position since Match when the Committee considered an appli­ cation by the Borough Surveyor for an increase in salary and it was decided that in view of the existing financial conditions no increase in the salary of the Borough Surveyor could he recommended. He desired to know if the financial conditions were better to-day than in March this year?


When the minutes of the Highways Com­


Highways Committee) said he did not think the question required an answer. Tho officials had to have their cuts restored. That was the wish of the Government, and that would not come solely from the High­ ways Department; part would come from the Ministry of Transport.


Alderman Standring (Chairman of tho


tho Ministry of Transport it is not thrown down from heaven.


someone. Personally I. have a great ad­ miration for Mr. Goodman because of his punctuality and the way in which ho attends to’ his work. He sets a fine examplo to everybody concerned with the work ol this Corporation. That is my opinion. 1 am not giving anyone olse’s. but the time is not opportune for a rise of this descrip­ tion. 1 am sorry to havo to oppose it, hut a man who has a conscience must follow it. J move that this item ho delected from the minutes. At the Committee meeting wo did not get an opportunity to reply to the. matter as it was dono rather too qiuckl\ . Further than that. I do not agree with tIk- method adopted. A


Councillor Leith : Even if part comes from i t lias to come out of


matter liko this conics before a committee the members of that committee should, in mv opinion, he supplied with an agenda. I ' grant that the Town Cork read tho minutes of the sub-committee but they were moved, seconded and carried before anyone liad the opportunity to object. As- 1 have stated before tho time is not opportune fot n rise of £50 to any official of this borough.


N hen an important


had been wondering since tile committee meeting whether Councillor Hughes and Councillor Waddington, as mover and seconder of the resolution, liad considered tho whole position since last March, a'ld whether they had come to tho conclusion that there had been an improvement in tho state of the trade of the town winch would warrant an increase in an official s salary. “ Personally. I do not wish to make any nattering remarks.” lie said.


Councillor Hallows on “ Over-Statfing.” Seconding, Councillor Hallows said lie


that when a man is drawing £-11 p - ovorv month he is getting a good wage, especially when I realize that a good deal of this inoncv is coming from the people who are drawing unemployment benefit.


I J e l lw


it was opposed, and wo wrote to ncigliho - ing towns to learn the wages they paid in regard to these men who worked long Hours for a miserable pittance. When jvcm ‘;'’ r to consider men drawing this high


1


people have been put in Court because they cannot pay their rates, and 1 have also been told that a solicitor has been round to certain houses to collect tho rates. 1 know and agree that people should pay their rates but we know the difficulties they have at present. Any increase will have to come out of these* people. Jt is our dutv to see that the poorest shall not be made poorer if it is possible. I believe that in March I was responsible for moving that the application the Borough Surveyor made then should lie on the table. 1 did so because I realized what the people were going through. And the situation is be­ coming worse, not mending.


have is with regard to the calling of tho meeting of the ‘sub-committee for 2-30 in tho afternoon when a number of the mem­ bers could not bo present to oppose tho matter in tho first instance. When some of us have to work for our living meetings should he called for nights when we can all attend. I t is the duty of the Council to turn this application down because tho timo is not ripe to give increments of two stuns of £25.


i understand that some


work ha* been placed on the shoulders of tlie Borough Surveyor lie should get extra staff, but in my opinion that department is over-burdened with staff. 1 believe that everv Councillor should be provided with the ‘number of employees in each depart­ ment and the wages paid so that wc can see if we are over-burdened with charges for staff in eomparision with boroughs of a similar size and providing similar service. We shall then know whether our employees are getting a living wage and whether we are overstaffing any departments. Per- scnallv. t am lirmlv convinced that we are over-staffed, and 1* would like to see tho big salaries reduced and the lower wages


If extra increased. Silent in Committee.


as Councillor Hallows had pointed out he had not an opportunity of attending the sub-committee meeting because it wns held in an afternoon lie had ample opportunity of raising the matter ^ at the Highways Committee meeting which lasted for two and a half hours. I t was rather surpris­ ing that although the application was accepted without a word of comment at the •committee meeting, tho proper place to mise such objections----- Councillor Hallows: Question.


Councillor Bentham said that although


ing is the proper place to raise them, for tho simple reason that if there is any question to answer it can be answered there for tiie mover and seconder of the resolu­ tion have tho opportunity of speaking twice which does not occur under the rules of debate in this Council Chamber. Further than that. I believe it has been usual when this Council has appointed an official to make that .appointment with increments covering a period of years. The appoint­ ment of the Surveyor was before my tune, but in this instance there must have been an oversight or otherwise he would have received increments similar to tlieso for which he V applying. Actually wo are only now discussing n question wlncli should have been settled then, H you look at the terms of appointment of our various ofliiials you will find similar in­ crements laid dim'll. *ilie Surveyor lias been in our service for n matter of four vears and lie would ill the ordinary course of events have been getting these incre­ ments. Why ho lias not done so is be­ cause when lio was appointed in 1931 tlio National Government had instituted its cconomv campaign. These things wero not mentioned out of courtesy. The heads of departments throughout the country sacrificed cuts. Here wo have it on the authority of tho Chairman that the Alinistrv of Transport will ho responsible for a certain amount of this increase, which in itself is an indication that the. increase is iustfied.


Councillor Bentham: The committee meet­ The contention of Councillors Leith and Hallows was that tenants of


“ UNFAIR TACTICS” IN HOUSING DISCUSSION. “ A certain liveliness," to use a war-time phrase, again marked the pro­


“ Public Advertising.”


every sense, shape or form. 1 have liad a bib of experience in public lifo and thero is not a greater critic than 1 but I always endeavour to make my criticism an honour able one. I wage my battle first in committee before broaching it in open Council, aud only if I ani defeated in committee do I bring the matter a step further. 1 do resent the remarks which have been made to-night, because the inference to be drawn from them is that wc conduct our committee meetings in a lackadaisical mauner and not in a business-like way. Councillor Leitli in his opening remarks made a statement that there was no time at the committee meeting to criticise the minutes of tho sub-committee. There are no standing orders in committee meetings. Even if the resolution had been put and carried there was still an opportunity to have them rescinded. Councillor Leith should havo learned that although ho has been in the Council only eighteen months. I received the impression that lie had not the chance to raise tho matter iu committee. He had plenty of chance to raise it. I am satisfied, Air. Mayor, it is nothing but public adver­ tising, appealing to the Press and trying to give the idea they are the saints of the town. They sat in committee and neither of them had a word to say. There was not a single word of protest when the minute was carried.


Councillor Barker: I like fair play iu


such expressions as have been given vent to in view of their conduct in committee. Thev had then ample opportunity of pro­ testing against this application. Councillor French agreed that it would


I see no reason for


have been an advantage if the minutes had been printed instead of being road out by the Town Clerk. Perhaps if thev had liad tlie minutes in front of them they would havo been better able to realize the posi­ tion.


the restoration of the cuts made in tho Surveyor’s salary would be paid by tho


lie desired to know how much of


Ministry? Alderman Standring: One half. Councillor French: Arc we compelled to


restore tho cuts? Alderman Standring: Yes.


option hut to pass these minutes? Alderman Stamlriug: That is so.


, Grants Towards Salary.


liko to make it quite clear as to what the answer given hv Alderman Standring means. ] t means one half of the Surveyor’s salary appropriate to his duties as Surveyor is paid by tho Ministry. He lias other duties towards the payment _ for which the Ministry does not contribute. Councillor French: Are wo expected to


The Mayor: If I might interrupt I would Councilor French: Then we have no Roadsweepers’ Advance.


of criticisms had been raised in connexion with tho increase of salary. The procedure at committee meetings had been discussed, tlio mode of conducting those meetings had been criticised, but not one reason had been advanced as to why the Surveyor should not have tho increase. The sugges­ tion liad been made that tho time was not appropriate.


Councillor Waddington said all manner


a recommendation • from the Whitley Council that tho road sweepers’ wages should be increased. There was no ques- tino there as to whether the time was not favourable. “ Councillor Hallows has stated that tho Surveyor’s department is over­ staffed,” Councillor Waddington went on. “ At a recent meeting of the Highways Committee when Councillor Hallows raised his great nucstion of baths it was pointed out that tlic Surveyor was unable to pre­ pare a plan in the time Councillor Hallows desired because his department had so much work in hand. Is a department over­ staffed which cannot copo with the work


In the same minutes was


chief objection lias been the mode of pro­ cedure at committee meetings. Councillor Parker, who has been a member of tills Council for a very long time, has given a clear statement of the position. 1 agree that it is a pitv such a matter should bo raised iu open Council when it could havo been discussed quite well iu committee.”


members of the Council desired done? Can onv Councillor say it is over-staffed? The


of the minutes he suffered from no qualms of conscience. When they attended the Sub-Committee meeting they had no idea of the business which was to be brought forward, and at the end of the meeting tho application for an increase of salary by the Surveyor came forward. The reasons for the application were heard, and after taking these into consideration coupled with the fact that the Council had no superannuation scheme for its officials as well as tho fact that the Surveyor was definitely not paid as well as those in towns of a similar size, the committee had no hesitation in recommending the increase. Tho Surveyor was well worthy of the in­ crease. lie was punctual and always atten­ tive to work, and ho saw no reason why the Surveyor’s salary should not be brought up to those paid in other towns.


Councillor Hughes said that as the mover Councillor Leith “ Out of Order.”


the Mayor ruled him out of order. Councillor Leith: 1 wish to get myseU out of a difficulty-----


Councillor Leith rose to speak again and


but I must ask you not to infringe the rules.Councillor Parker: I object to him speak­ ing twice. If he speaks I shall certainly rise again. Councillor Leith: That is all right. Councillor Parker: I t is not fair. The Alayor: The only thing you can do,


The Mayor: I am sorry, Councillor Leith, .


pay one-half of the increase in addition to the restoration of the cuts? I want to he quite clear before J continue to speak on this matter.


The position is this: Mr. Goodman is paid a certain salary which covers his duties as Surveyor, Water Engineer, and so forth. In respect to that portion of his salary which is attributable to and paid for liis duties as Surveyor you get a 50 per cent, grant from tho Ministry of Transport. Therefore such part of the-e two £25 in­ crements as are increments towards his salary as Surveyor will ho met hv a similar payment from tho Ministry of 'transport. Councillor French: J tako it then that


Tlie Town Clerk (Mr. G. ITetherington) :


if the Council do not agree to this increase tlie Government will not pay Mr. Goodman


clear. This application has quite definitely nothing to do with tliQ restoration of cuts. It is quite definitely an increase of salary. It* is no good beating about the bush. Let us havo it quite clear. The Surveyor will get his cuts restored like any other official in the ordinary course of events. This increase which tho committee have recom­ mended is for extra work.


anvthing extra Alderman Stamlring: No. Councillor Manley: 1 will try to make it


Turned Down in March.


whole Council wns unanimous in turning down tho application for an increase in salary and we did not tuni it down with­ out due consideration.


Councillor French: In March last the


trouble of studying the wages paid by towns of a similar size to Clithcroe. We examined them carefully, and wo came to the con­ clusion that our Borough Surveyor was drawing a salary which compared favour­ ably with tho salaries paid by other towns. I think that if this application had been brought direct to the full committee it would have been better and more business­ like. I t seems to me a case of being un­ able to get in at the front door and going round to the hack. I do not think it is


\ \e went to the


quite fair. Alderman Standring: Thanks very much.


sonal. I always try to refrain from that. I consider the application might have met


not blaming Alderman Stnudring for think- in" J am being personal, but that is not mv intention.


Councillor French*. I thought so. l . am I have never been per­


with more favourable support liad it been brought direct to the whole committee and the reasons for the application made clear. Councillor Hargreaves said he wished to


Councillor Leith, is to ask questions. Councillor Leith: I merely wanted— • The Alayor: I am sorry, Councillor Leith,


myself out of a difficulty. Tho Mayor: i cannot allow you to make


but vou cannot do it. Councillor Leith: I was going to get


a speech. Councillor Hallows: Cau 1. ask a ques­


tion of Councillor Waddington? Never mind the wages of tho road sweepers. \\ hat does he pay his labourers? if he is getting


persoual I will. Councillor Leitli: 1 was going to move a


before the meeting. You must dispose, of that amendment, if there is any contention after that amendment has been disposed of then vou can move a further amendment. The Alayor: I am trying to be quite fan-


in this matter. Councillor Leith, and to see that no member speaks more than onco


move this resolution you will have to allow them, all to speak because it will havo to


to the amendment. Councillor Leith: If you allow me to


be discussed.


Councillor Leith has moved an amendment to tlio minutes, how can he want to move a


amendment go, Councillor Leith. Councillor Parker: On a point of order.


further resolution? Councillor Leith; Only to get out of a


draw the other amendment. Councillor Leith: There is no need to


do that. I am only trying to get rnysclt out of a difficulty.


members ought to tako notice of tho Mayor. There was sonic misuudorstaning ns to what tho application really meant.


everv member of tho Council to know tlio exact position before ho voted. A\ hatever tiie sub-committee had done had not been done until thev liad enquired thoroughly into the grounds for tho application, lhey had decided that tho increase was reason­ able because of tho extra work th a t , had Ijoon thrust on Mr. Goodman. Ho wished to make it clear, ns Chairman of tho Finance Committee, that tlie increase wns not £S os had been suggested but was a definite increase of £25 plus the return ot


lie wished the cuts.


say a word with regard to proceedings in committee. He would liko the other de­ partments to follow the example of the Klectricitv Department, which always let


tho members of the Kleitricity Committee havo the minutes of the .sub-committee before the full committee met. When tho minutes of sub-committees were read it was almost impossible to follow them fully and to grasp their business.


Councillor Hnllows: J wo increments of . . . . .c


^Councillor Manley: 'Hie other increment comes on later.


work the Surveyor lias in hand and it is cheaper than making him a grant ns you


f t is very little for tho


would probably do. Councillor Hallows: Mho says so. Councillor Manley: I have merely said


had been supplied to members prior to the meeting there would then have been some grounds for the arguments of Councillor Parker, but as it was the whole thing wns due to the method of procedure.


If the minutes Big Schemes Proceeding.


embarking upon modifications at tho sewage works which will cost tho ratepayers of tins town £10,000. anil here we are debating a question of £25 a year for the Surveyor who will he to a argo extent rcsponsil,lo for the carrying through of that £ 10,0110 scheme I t would have cost considerably


In addition to that, we are


A great many of these people cannot afford to pay their rates, and it is high tnno in­ creases of this description should c * - Some time ago when we wero advocating increasing the wages of the lower PJ“<


think it is high time to stop and that is whv T second tho amendment proposed by


.* Councillor Loitli. Another objection 1


more than what the Surveyor is applying for laid we had to engage a consultant On-ineer to attend to tho matter. 1 nm dee pi v grieved that this question should have Loon raised in public, that all official of this Corporation should ho placed in this unfortunate position where lie has no opportunity to speak for himself or to answer the questions and insinuations made, or to support the application lie lias made. T'hopo that in view of tho ninny schemes ho lias in hand at tho moment that the minutes will he passed.


Treasurer if ho could state the exact amount of monev which would bo paid by the Ministry of Transport towards the restora­ tion of tho cuts in the Surveyor’s salary? Tho Borough Treasurer (Air. J. II.


Alderman Boothman asked the Borough


as von would probably do. This increase is definitely an increase and not a return of cuts. On the other hand I would like to point out that of any increase wo give the Surveyor wo shall get a 50 per cent, grant from tho .Ministry. Really we shall he paving an increase of £12 10s. Councillor Leith'says that tho Ministry’s grant does not drop from tho clouds.


awaro of that, but as far. as I am con- corned 1 am prepared in view of the fact that the Surveyor has not had an increaso sinco he was appointed to support tlio minutes. All this work which is on hand means that ho is having to work much longer than office hours. I think wo can afford the extra £*25.


I am quite


Taylor): About £17. Alderman Boothman: Then the difference


Councillor AVaddington a question. Does he object to this increase in wages for the


Councillor Hnllows: I would like to ask ,


between the £25 asked for and tho £1/ from the Alinistrv is a matter of £8. Mo have before us a £10,000 scheme at the sewage works, a dozen houses to be erected in Kdisford-rond; another dozen required for the cement works; the widening of* tho West Bradford-road; tlie question of the bridge over the railway nt .Victoria-street; and the making of tho rontl front Victoria, street to Seednll-nvemic. I think that is quite enough to keep the Surveyor quiet for another- twelve months and niii going to support tho minutes. I tt is the most practical thing we can do, without entering into the merits'or demerits of-the case.


road sweepers? The Mnvor: Tt is not n relevant question.


road sweepers was passed unanimously; Councillor Hallows: MTiy has he men­


Councillor Benthnm: The incrensc to tho . . •.


Councillor AVnddington: I have not ques­ Heavy Extra Work.


; • * _ . ■ *


ring snid ho wns'sorry-the discussion-had occurred. ‘The increase had been recom­ mended because of tho heavy amount of


Replying to the debate. Alderman Stand- ,___________________ , * *, n~ ►. V - \ . ■ ) r . t i ' ' P * ‘ TivU: -*'>'


)i . M.f fi.of if wc as a Council nr© going M e r ’ houses'to bo1 pulled down wc ought t t o ready to put tlio pepolo .who me


I s all nlwnvs stick to that principle wli lo I am hero. ' I am not going to bo■


urned out of them into tlio .new houses one who


tioned it? tioned it.


Councillor Hallows: Councillor Wadding- ton mentioned it.


Councillor Manloy on Surveyor’s Work Councillor Manley said he considered tho


difficulty. Councillor Parker: Then you must with­


The Alayor: You will have to let your , ,


resolution to get myself out of a difficulty. Tho Town Clerk: There is an amendment


extra work which the Surveyor had had to undertake. The Surveyor had 'not had a rise since he was appointed ami lie had been a servant of tlio Council for more than four years and he was an excellent surveyor. Furthermore li*» was not paid a salary equal to tiiat paid in towns of a similar size. He thanked Councillor Leith for stating that the Surveyor was punctual. Evidently lie took notice. Councillor Leitlf: Yes, I wish they were


all liko him. Alderman Standring: That is worth a


pound or two. I hope the Council will support tlio minutes. On being put to the vote tlio amendment


that the minute be deleted was defeated by eleven votes to four. On the proposition of Councillor Hallows,


seconded by Councillor Bentham, the names of those voting was recorded as follows:— For the amendment: Councillors Leith, Hallows, French and Hargreaves. Against: Aldermen Seedall, Stamiring, Thornber and Boothman; Councillors Alanley, Hughes, Bcntham, Dewjliurst, Parker, Waddington and the Alayor.


HOUSING PROBLEM.


Councillor Leith’s Questions on Demolition When tho minutes of tho Housing Com­


mittee had been moved ami seconded, Councillor Leith asked what had beconio of the people whoso houses wero to be de­ molished. He had asked the question several times in committee without receiving a satisfactory answer, and he had received ccinplaiuts on the subject. He had advised them as to what they ought to do but he wished to know definitely the position as lie might have been wrong. Councillor Dewhurst (Chairman of tho


is ready to pull down houses and not find accommodation for the people who lived in it. The chief objection which has been raised to my argument is that these peoplo have not large families or that they aro living by themselves. I t is not their fault they lmvo not largo families or that they havo not been married.


not want to bo married and desires to livo alone he is fully entitled to do so. Tho question also seems to bo one of subsidy. Never mind subsidy. Let us house the peoplo wo aro going to turn out of their homes. That is my principle. 1 now


It' a person does “ Slanderous Remarks.”


had read with interest the names of the people to whom the houses had been let. He had no objection to those people. He would like to mention what he considered wore slanderous remarks uttered concerning members of tho Council. I t had been re­ ported to him that the Chairman of tin Housing Committee had said: “ These are tlie peoplo you put in tho Council. Let them find you houses. We cannot do any more.” “ If that is true, J. think it is dirty,” Councillor Hallows said. “ i do not like it. L do not want people putting me on the Council aud thinking it is mv living. It is not. I work for mine. Probably m letting these houses the Housing Committee did their best, but 1 can assure them they havo not let them to tho people with the


Councillor Hallows seconded and said he (THREE) U NM A RK ED Used GARS


move that the resolution regarding tiie letting of the houses in Hotden-street be referred back for further consideration.


1934 Austin 16 c.b. Sliding Head Saloon, colour Black.


1933 Austin Twelve Six De-luxe Saloon, colour Black.


Maroon. £215


1933 Austin Heavy Twelve Four c.b. Sliding Head Saloon, colour


£145 £110


1933 Austin Ten, Sports Patrick 4-str. Coupe, Sliding Head, Green. £125


1934 Morris 25 c.b. Saloon, colour Black, numerous extras. Cost £400 £210


1934 Morris 15.6 c.b. Saloon, Sliding Head.


1934 Morris 16 Six, c.b. Saloon, Sliding Head, colour Black. Cost £285.


1934 Morris 12 h.p. Saloon, Sliding Head, colour Black.


Housing Committee) said that if he re­ membered rightly tho position had been explained quite fully in committee to Councillor Leith on many occasions. Councillor Leith: Not to inv satisfaction. Councillor Dcwhurst: Jf he has not grasped the point fully* L will repeat it for his


hugest families. 1 understand an attempt was being mado to get so many people living in these houses. Whether they have got the requisite number or not I do not know, but 1 understand it was to ho some- tiling like 40 in the eight houses. Thero a«*o not 40 iu the families to which they have let these houses. i t would do no harm for tho committee to review the position. Councillor Parker: I am not going to


benefit. The Alayor asked Councillor Leith, who


was standing, to take his seat whilst Coun­ cillor Dewhurst was speaking. Councillor Dewhurst: Councillor Leith


1934 Morris Ten Six c.b. Sliding Head Saloon, colour Black.


1935 Standard, Little Nine, c.b. Sliding Head Saloon, colour Blue.


1935 Vauxhail 27 h.p. c.b. Sliding Head Saloon, colour Blue. Mile­ age 6,000.


knows that wo havo on many occasions tried to get permission to build houses. With regard to the people whoso houses are to be demolished wo arc not compelled to find these people alternative accommodation as .! have explained before. But as far as we possibly can wo are going to try to do that, hut you must understand wc are not compelled to do it.


allow us to Iniild houses we will build them. That is all I can say.


Who Owns the Property.


know this: According to a resolution we passed in October last certain houses were to bo demolished within six weeks. 1 want to know who owns the property at tlio con­ clusion of tho six weeks. Eight months havo passed now and the tenants are still


Councillor Leith: I would also liko to


for property owners? Councillor Leith: I t is not for property


there. Councillor Parker: Is this inlorinatiou


owners; it is for tenants. Councillor Dewhurst: As a legal point is


tion order vou did order that these houses should be * demolished within a certain period. You have considered providing alternative accommodation, which accord­ ing to tlie standards laid down hv tho Housing Act of 1930 is adequate for the purpose of re-housing all tho persons who are in these houses iu respect of which you Jiavo mndo demolition orders.


involved I will ask the Town Clerk to reply. The Town Clerk: In makiug the demoli­


the position as 1 seo it but I do not follow Councillor Leith’s refcreuce to tho six


ls weeks.


snvs: “ It be demolished within six weeks after tlio expiration of the said period of eight months or if not vacated, before the expiration of the said period of eight months within six weeks alter the da to on which it is vacated.” The whole thing to me is this, if theso people aro still there can they livo rent and rates free? I believe under M?ction three of the Bent Restrictions Act thev aro entitled to if their houses havo been certified unfit for human habitation and thev apply to the County Court. Councillor Bentham: Aro wc discussing


Councillor Leith; I will refer you to the minute oil tho question.


. . „ . I t distinctly


the minutes of October last or for tins* month?


Councillor Leith Repliesi


minutes I nm bringing beforo you. Refer­ ence lias been inado to methods of procedure in committee and I nm bringing you back to vour own minutes to show you that i have an idea of wlmt goes on in committee. As for saving i do not Know any tiling


Councillor Leith: Wc aro discussing the


about committee work, J am S01“e an amendment that tho lotting of the houses referred to in tho Housing Committee minutes bo referred back for further con­ sideration. 1 think I am now entitled to renlv to wlmt lias been said previously in tins'meeting. I do not wish to mnko accusations against anybody and I lia\e no intention of doing so. A s to th o subject of committee meetings if Councilloi 1 arkcr will bring bis mind back I objected at the last committee meeting to the fact that I was not able to vote as I had »<> ' bc.m a word of tlio correspondence rend out b} tho Town Clerk owing to tile tittle-tattle taking


place across tlio room. Tlio Mayor: You are infringing the staud-


ji,cr orders again, Councillor Leith. Councillor Leith: I am not mfnng.ng


a,Tbo"Mayor: You are not speaking on tho minutes.


11 Like a Smoking Concert.”


accusations, against mo I have to wait for an opportunity to get m my reply. ! d s tinctly said it was unfortunate fo tbo Town Clerk, and, m my opinion, it was insulting to him .when peoplo are walking


Councillor Leith: When people make


across tiie room in committco did not understand a word the town Uerk was saving. Tliero wns talking all lound the table. I t was not a committeo meet­


ing- it was more like a smoking <-*o''cclt- Councillor Hargreaves: Who wero tho


.thev ought to bo tho persons to Bo into tho now houses in Holden-street. That has


been'my view on the matter a n d 1 have


Si,(Anincillor Leith: There can bo smoking concerts without artistes and they can bo very entertaining. Mv p r i i ic 'p lc n s a member of tbo Housing Committeo has nlwnvs been this, if people arc to be tinned out of houses which aro to bo demolished


say a lot, but I am going to say this: I would never bo a party to it and I can uuderstaud no member of the Labour party advocating putting 40 people into eight houses. I t is over-crowding and I object to it. Councillor Hallows: Hear, hear. Councillor liargrpaves said tho problem of


£160 £125 £125 £120 £105


£255 EVERY CAR IN PERFECT CONDITION. J. & S. Leaver Ltd If the Alinistry will


letting Corporation houses was a difficult cno and tho Council was doing all they could to get out of the difficulty. Another minute referred to sending a deputation to London in order to try to get tho Ministry to consent to the building of small houses for single persons and old aged persons, to bo let at a smaller rent If the Alinistry would givo that permission they could deal with tho problems raised iu the debate.


Deputation to Ministry.


consisted of tho Chairman of tho Housing Committee (Councillor Dewhurst), Coun­ cillor Parker and the Borough Surveyor, but lie would like, if the Council would agree, to have an alteration made to tho minutes that the Borough Treasurer should go with them as the question of finance would uiimicstionably arise in the course of the discussion. I t would probably facilitate matters considerably if that course were adopted.


Councillor Alanley said tho deputation


also considered that the Chairman of the Finance Committeo should go as well. Councillor Alauley: I t does ' not matter I merely want the Borough


Councillor Leith said lie quite agreed and about me.


Finance Committee is one of the most im­ portant peoplo connected with this Council. He is in effect, our Chancellor of tho Exchequer, and I think he should go as well. I intend to say a few words, before they go. about these houses.


Treasurer to go. Councillor Leith: Tho Chairman of the


less position unless you first deal with the amendment before the Council. The Deputy ALayor can raise the question of the deputa­ tion when tho amendment has been disposed of.


two persons going to London. Tho Town Clerk: You will get in a hope­


Councillor Leith? Councillor Leith: I t is respecting these


The’Alayor: Have uot you already spoken, ,


debate I have only one regret and that is that Councillor Leith and Councillor Hallows are not on this sub-committee. Of all tho thankless jobs a councillor gets the Housing Sub-Committee is the worst. AVe are doing all wo can to see that the people of Clithcroe arc better housed. As far as we cau we aro getting rid of old buildings and housing peoplo in new ones. There will have to be patience and tolerance with tlioso whose thankless job it is to do it.


The Alayor: As I have listened to this Alderman Seedall on Housing.


sympathy with the first part of his state­ ment.


Councillor Leith had developed the argu­ ment on the lines he did.


Alderman Seedall snid he was sorry lie was in full


Corporation should take advantage of a certain Act of Parliament and displace people in order to pull down their property and not be able to put them into another house. But it was not in tho Council's power to do so unless as Councillor Leith had suggested the Council would take tho bit betwecu their teeth and build houses without subsidy. No one had pressed the housing question in committee more than had he. He felt strongly on the question, and stronglv on the subject of people hav­ ing their houses demolished and having to go into lodgings.


I t was distinctly unfair that the


people are living in Council houses at tho PM'svnt time when, strictly speaking, under the Housing Acts, they are not really entitled to do so—persons who, in my. opinion, can afford to pay an economic rent, and who are now being* subsidised by the ratepayers of this town. These are things I have thought about and thought about* very seriously. I venture to suggest that no person of that calibre has been placed in these houses since I took over the chair­ manship of the Housing Committee some eighteen months ago. 1 have tried to act perfectly honestly in tho matter. As a matter of fact 1 do not know a single person who is to occupy the houses ia Holden-street. The list of applicants wa3 gone through very thoroughly.


like to ask who you would suggest for these houses if we did not accept these names.


A Wrong Impression.


tion would press for all they were worth for tho small houses to bo built on the site selected and that they would bring all the pressure to bear on the Afinistry that thev could in order that justice could be done‘to tlio people who wero being dis­ placed Thero wero other houses to be considered in tho Health Department and quite a lot of work in tho future. There was a list of 160 applicants for houses and ho hoped tho Council when sitting in committee., would do all they could to ex­ pedite the business and get more houses built and that they would not in future have to listen to discussions of that character in tho Council Chamber.


lie honed tho deputa­


Councillor Dewhurst on “ Unfair Tactics.” Replying to tho debate, Councillor Dew­


hurst said no one could say that the mem­ bers ot tho Housing Committeo had not dono all that was humanly possible to try to build more houses. As a matter ot Tact, Alderman Seedall had said that .the Council should build houses without State assistance, and plans hnd actually been passed for tho building of such houses in Edisford-rond. “'Councillor Hallows has mndo n statement accusing me of using ex­


pressions which I can assure you, Mr. Mnvor and gentlemen, havo never passed mi


fnco on tills housing question.; Fm thei moi e, L would ask Councillors to ..think how many


lips'. I do not know wlmt estimation Councillor Hallows has of me, but I hope vou do not think I am n person who would resort to methods of that character, well knowing ns I do tho difficulties we lrnve .to


Tiie statement that we tried to put 40 persons into the eight houses iu Holdeu- street certainly gives a wrong impression.’ Ii*. order to erect these eight houses in liolden-street wo had to show a displacement of 40 persons. That being so it menus we have acted in accordance with tho law, AVe do uot make the laws. I think it is most unfair for them to shout these things out in Council meetings; it is most unfair to the members of this Council and the officials who are employed by the Council, I absolutely resent it and I do not think any reasonable business man would resorti to such tactics as they do. The methods they adopt are absolutely foreign to me and I think to .the reasonable members of this Council ns well .as to the ratepayers.


Councillor Hnllows and Councillor Leith, that all is being done that is possible to bo dono to find accommodation for tho working peoplo of this town and not for.


Councillor Hallows: ' Question. Councillor Dewhurst: I can assure you,-


people who as I have said before can afford to pay an economic rent for their houses. Councillor Leith: I think I am entitled— The Mayor: You are entitled to nothing. Councillor Leith: He asked for a sug­


but you aro entirely out of order. Only Councillors Leith and Hallows voted


gestion— The Mayor: I am sorry Councillor Leith,


tion of tlio deputation to London and sug­ gested. tlmt the Borough Treasurer should go in addition to thoso mentioned in tho minutes in order to answer any questions that could bo raised ns to finance. Alderman Boothinnn seconded and tho


for tiio amendment which was defeated. Councillor Alanley then raised the. ques­


I would


never spoken a word.” “ Veil, why don't you give him a


“ I've had a parrot two years aud lie's


chance?” Ultra-Modern CVinvict: This jail is no


Eanam, Blackburn Phones 4101-2-3.


Night Service 4193. Hire Purchase. Part Exchanges.


Completely equipped Modern Service Station VAUXHALL DISTRIBUTORS ■ AUSTIN MAIN AGENTS


f /


good to me; it’s old fashioned. Goevrnor: Vliat’s wrong witli it ? Convict: VJiere am I to park my car when I ’m serving my sentence?


FOR BEST VALUE —d.1N


H O U S E H O L D


DRAP ERY . .. TRY


Peter Harrison


The “ WEAR ” House CASTLE ST.,’ CLITHEROE


minutes were carried with that alteration. : TOWN COUNCIL continued on page 4.


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