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have to train them from scratch. Mobile phones are built in variants and exist for two to three years. We’re talking about maintenance. I’d be happy to use it, but we have to agree on a lifetime because, every two years, we redesign the system. But if you’re ready with the system, the cameras are not existing anymore because they’re not produced. The chips, such as in a GoPro, can do image processing; but if you want to buy them, you have to buy them in quantities of 100,000 per month. No one in our market, not even Basler – the biggest company in our market – has that volume. You don’t get these chips. You have to start with what’s feasible.
It takes longer and does require more development. The system isn’t existing; it’s development, and development is absolutely unpredictable. We can say: “Okay, we did this, and we have that experience,” and, hopefully, we’re one of the most experienced companies in the market. Still, we have to develop, so it always takes a bit longer. We try to explain this to the customer,
and they say: “Oh yeah, no problem, we can do that.” But in, let’s say, two thirds of the projects, you always reach a point where things aren’t working as expected: where it’s not fast enough, and people underestimate the work involved, such as the number of images you need. In production, the product range they
have is more diverse. For example, coins – you think they’re all the same but, if you look with a camera, each coin is different. Then you have to find the significant difference between the differences. We need the customer, we need the experience, we need the production, and only then can we make it happen. We also need our machine builder to be involved. This is the tricky part: where they
all then see how difficult it is and how much they are both involved. It’s not just us; it’s the whole system, including the mechanical part. Once they see this, then you have them; all expectations fall off. They understand, and it gets easier again. But we have this curve in about two thirds of every customer, and they have no idea. We can get smoother, and we’re getting better at that, but it’s always a hurdle and I have no idea how to overcome it.
What are your pain points in designing and sourcing vision components and systems? I would say this is our strength. I mean, you’re always missing something, but we’re really deep into the network. We know what’s feasible. Even the things that are not feasible for us, we know them, such as a GoPro Smart Camera. That technology is usually not accessible
for us. I can explain, “Okay, this is feasible; this is the technology we can get.” But usually, they say, “Okay, billions we don’t have. Let’s start with what is feasible.” Then you look at whatever is available. We can also build cameras from the sensor; we help customers to OEM-ise these things. I’ve been to most of the production lines of camera vendors – the German ones, ADT, the Canadian ones. I know what they can do; and I know most of the engineering in the market.
Has the supply chain affected your operations, particularly after the pandemic? The funny thing is, we weren’t hurt by the difficulties because you always got vendors who could deliver. It was the big ones, the stock market guys, who didn’t seem to have stock. But the smaller ones – the 1,500-employee companies – had enough stock. So what we did, we redesigned the camera, the SDK, for our customers, and they changed the camera. We had delivery times of about two
to three weeks, so it was perfect. Right now, just two months ago, I would say it’s increasing again. It’s increasing finally over all components. We see it in the cameras, we see it in the cables, we see it in the PCs – we see it everywhere. I hope it’s a good sign because the market is ramping up; it’s happening again. The funny thing is, no one learned anything. In coronavirus, everyone said: “Okay, we have more stock; let’s produce in our countries,” and then they didn’t.
Where do you now see the greatest opportunity for Phil-Vision in terms of the market sector? We try to build something unique, but it’s difficult to phrase. One key aspect is that while many companies try to integrate finished vision systems themselves to save costs, these systems, although improving, still have limitations. They’re not fast or advanced enough in some areas. We encourage customers who are facing challenges with off-the-shelf systems to come to us earlier in their process. The earlier that you involve experts like us, the less expensive and more effective the solution will be. In terms of market direction, it’s getting
clearer, but we don’t have a single clear market direction yet. So not in the next one or two years...
What is the biggest challenge for Phil- Vision over the next 12 months? We hope that innovation will continue to be strong. At the moment, things look extremely good with a positive outlook for the rest of the year, but we can’t be
26 IMAGING AND MACHINE VISION EUROPE AUGUST/SEPTEMBER 2024
certain. During the coronavirus pandemic, there was a noticeable drop in innovation. Typically, in an economic downturn, companies keep their engineers on board to work on the next generation of systems, even if it’s costly. But, during Covid, nothing was
invented. When the economy picked up again, engineers were busy maintaining production instead of innovating. This delay, especially in sectors like automotive, has put Europe at a disadvantage. The Chinese are now ahead, and European companies are playing catch-up. Innovation must stay strong if we want to elevate to the next engineering level. Otherwise, Europe will face tough times.
Given the uncertain economic climate, how have you found working with vendors? Any advice for them? We’re quite happy with our vendors overall, but the supply chain is always a concern. Companies are being acquired and shareholder interests often lead to emptying stock, which is dangerous. It doesn’t take much – like some ships stuck in a Chinese harbour – for the whole system to falter. In these times, we rely more on smaller, independently-owned companies because they can deliver consistently. Innovation in this area is fine, and we’re happy with that.
How does Phil-Vision typically find business opportunities? It’s a different approach for us. We try to be very broad because we haven’t identified a specific pattern. We need to be found by those seeking what we offer. You can’t just cold call everyone, especially in our industry. When a company needs a new innovation and realises vision is the key, they need to find us. We rely heavily on the web and social media and try to be as broad as possible.
Are you a member of any industry associations, and if so, how do they help you? I like the EMVA, but it’s mainly focused on marketing. Unfortunately, it doesn’t help us much with acquiring new business since it’s mostly vendors, and we already know them. The real challenge is that most platforms – magazines, MBAs, LinkedIn– are filled with competitors and vendors, not actual customers. Some of the magazines, for example, are for very specific vertical markets, and this is our difficulty. We are not in vertical markets, so we don’t have the money to invest in all of these, but this is really the problem. We don’t access our customers. Finding a platform to connect directly with customers can be, we find, extremely difficult. i
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